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New MMBforums • View topic - DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

DVD-lab, DVD-lab Studio and DLP2

DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

Postby peterlloyd » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:55 am

I would like to see some “official” clarification of the DVD-lab PRO 2 program limits which impact the complexity of DVDs produced and the incidence of “Out of Memory” events when compiling a Mega-project.

In May 2007, I started using DVD Lab PRO 2.28 since at that time it had the capability for 640 menus per VTS, 99 VTS and allowed configuration of DVD content through the Lab-TALK script capability. My goal was and is to capture DVD quality images of a selection of my 35 mm slide collection on a single DVD. So far, I have captured approximately 4000 slides and estimate that I have 50% completed my goal. This DVD currently has 4 VMG menus, 7 VTS each containing one 10 sec video, and about 600 menus. Currently this project DVDVolume folder is only 350 MB and the Mega-project folder is 3.3 GB. If completion of my goal is possible, I should have 8000 slide images captured on appropriately annotated menus on a single DVD of approximately 14 VTS (each would have the same 10 sec video clip to satisfy DVD specifications). At the outset, this level of complexity in a single DVD seemed reasonable since 14 VTS is much less than the maximum of 99 and the maximum number menus of 99*640=63360 far exceeds my need for 8000.

However, since adding the last several hundred menus to my project, I have started to experience “Out of Memory” messages when attempting to compile the Mega-project even after "Project/Free-up Memory". So far, I have been unable to identify the conditions which ensure or preclude this event. I am concerned that I am pushing some fundamental limit.

I am using DVD-lab PRO 2.51 Compiler 4.215 under Windows 7 Ultimate Service Pack 1 with system managed virtual memory on a 3GHz Dell Studio 540 with 8GB of RAM.

I sent an online form mail to MediaChance support for DVD-lab PRO summarizing the above and received the following response from Sunimage Studios : “The problem would be number of VTS, is it possible to merge the project to less VTSs?”

I have read the forum discussions at viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2273&p=13029&hilit=out+of+memory#p12989 and empathize with the other users of DVD-lab PRO 2 who are experiencing similar problems to me but with quite different projects. From this reading and my own experience, it seems that there is a minor operational deficiency in DVD-lab PRO 2.51. At the very least, there should be more information for the user as to what has happened, why, and suggested action with the “Out of Memory” message event. Action should be taken by the Oscar and the MediaChance development/support team to enhance this outstanding product and to clarify the real complexity limits of DVDs produced by DVD-lab PRO 2. Surely, we are not limited to just a few VTS before the DVD-lab PRO 2 crashes as suggested above.

I am willing to share my project files with the product developers to help get this problem resolved and help me reach my project goal.

Thank you
All suggestions are greatly appreciated.
peterlloyd
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:21 pm

Re: DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

Postby Vapymid » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:56 am

I have done similar projects myself, although I took completely different route. I rendered all slides into video streams at 3500kbps (to allow for panning and zooming) with each static slide lasting 7 - 8 seconds or so. Of course you can never fit your number of slides on 1 DVD with that approach but I found that even that was more than a person can look at in one session and still pay attention/remain sane. So, for me, the fact that my entire slides collection will span over several discs is irrelevant.

Now, with your approach, the most obvious workaround for me is to split your project into several smaller ones, each of which you will compile separately, then move all VTS VOBs and IFOs to another directory before compiling the next one. Finally, you will make a "master" project, complete with final VMG menues, and import all your pre-compiled VTSs using "attach external VTS" function.

The memory issue arises because DVDLab's project designer has to pass a lot of information about each VTS to the compiler. The more VTSs there are, the more objects in menues - the greater is the volume of that information and eventually it runs out of memory allocated to the program by Windows. When you import a pre-compiled VTS none of that happens, DVDLab just reads what information it needs from VTS files.

You will need to pre-plan the navigation a little bit and you will need to do some manual correction of links with PGCEdit after you compile your master projects but that should not be too difficult.

Regards
Vapymid
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:38 am
Location: London, UK

Re: DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

Postby peterlloyd » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:56 pm

Vapymid,

Thank you very much for your suggestion:
"the most obvious workaround for me is to split your project into several smaller ones, each of which you will compile separately, then move all VTS VOBs and IFOs to another directory before compiling the next one. Finally, you will make a "master" project, complete with final VMG menues, and import all your pre-compiled VTSs using "attach external VTS" function."

I had dismissed that option several years ago as a solution to "Out of memory" messages because the help in DVD-lab PRO 2 says on the one hand

"It would be much easier to handle and test it, if you divide it into few VTS blocks that are created, compiled and tested separately. Then at the end you can join these VTS blocks into a final disc using the Attach External VTS feature."

and later "Note: You can attach only 3 VTS's in one project." This seemed contradictory to me.

Anyway, starting with my 7 VTS (4000+ slides) project, I deleted all the VTS leaving the my VMG menus and option settings. I then attached the 7 external VTS from the project DVDVolume IFO files and relinked the main VMG menu to VTS Import 1-7(menu) and compiled.
WOW- I could not believe the speed of the compile. The resulting DVD worked!! The process you suggested worked in contradiction to the DVD-lab PRO 2 help.
Is there a trick to integrate two DVDs into one and a VMG menu? That would also help manage complexity.
Regards
Peter
peterlloyd
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:21 pm

Re: DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

Postby peterlloyd » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:06 pm

Vapymid,
Two more questions:
Is it possible to link to a VTSImport's menu in lab-TALK? (So I that I can easily generate a project VMG main menu.)
Is it possible to attach an External VTS with lab-TALK.
Thanks for all your help!
Peter
peterlloyd
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:21 pm

Re: DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

Postby Vapymid » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:50 am

Vapymid
 
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Location: London, UK

Re: DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

Postby peterlloyd » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:25 am

Vapymid"

Thanks, so may I assume that each attachable VTS can contain 640 menus and there can be up to 99 attached VTS?

I built an experimental DVD with 14 VTS and ~ 8000 menus similar to my ultimate goal using the technique you suggested. I tested the result and was pleased that the options set via GPRM registers in the VMG extended to the attached VTSs.

So, are there any other constraints which might limit the technique? e.g. with more than one video per VTS.

RE: Is there a trick to integrate two DVDs into one and a VMG menu?

It would be nice to import DVD1 and DVD2 including their VMG menus and then link them with one simple menu with links to Disk1 and Disk2. Similar to the attach VTS capability.

Regards
Peter
peterlloyd
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:21 pm

Re: DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

Postby Vapymid » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:08 pm

Vapymid
 
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Location: London, UK

Re: DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

Postby peterlloyd » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:08 pm

Thank you Vapymid you do a good job!
peterlloyd
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:21 pm

Re: DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

Postby dstone » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:49 am

I just wanted to post a quick note about the work-around using external VTSs. This will not work if you have any multi-angle titles, including both internal and external. The resulting DVD is somehow marked as single angle only.

It's really quite odd. I've run into this while trying to build a DVD with 14 multi-angle titles. I have the "main" tltle, with 1 multi-angle video and linked commands to the root menu for each of the other 13 external titles. Each external title is a simple VTS with menu, built in DLP. If I look at each of them separately, they all correctly implement the angle changes. As soon as I import one into the main title, the resulting DVD does not implement angles on any title. Using PGCEdit I can see that the titles have the multi-angle flag and both views are in the VOBs.

My ultimate work-around was to not import external titles in DLP, but to import the tltles and menus using PGCEdit. This maintains the angles correctly.
dstone
 
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Re: DVD-lab PRO 2 Complexity Limits

Postby Vapymid » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:32 am

Yes, I've done some tests and can confirm that.

However, there is a simple workaround - compile the master project with attached external VTS's in DVDLab then open the VMG IFO (VIDEO_TS.IFO) with IFOEDIT, go to VMG_PTT_SRPT (Video Manager Title Play Map Table) and set the number of angles in the relevant titles by hand.

Regards
Vapymid
 
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