Issue reports

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Threshold All Channels not working

Postby munki » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:14 pm

I can't seem to get Threshold All Channels to be controlled by a knob or in a parameters group. Value changes in the knob/parameter but no effect on image. The dial in the actual Threshold block does work.

I also noted in my param group where Threshold All Channels was the topmost control, moving it moved all controls below in unison. The other controls where from other types of block - not the individual colour channels of the threshold block. When Threshold all channels was not topmost in the param group this didn't happen.

Could anyone else confirm this as a bug or show me I'm doing something wrong. Maybe there's two issues here, or one, or operator error :shock:
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Re: Threshold All Channels not working

Postby bil abington, pa » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:17 pm

I can't seem to get Threshold All Channels to be controlled by a knob or in a parameters group. Value changes in the knob/parameter but no effect on image. The dial in the actual Threshold block does work.


Same here. I kind have been ignoring this module for a couple I never quite understood why a lot of modules have no effect if placed after it in a flow. For example Image/Exposure/Threshold (Exposure works), put exposure after it and nothing happens.

I also noted in my param group where Threshold All Channels was the topmost control, moving it moved all controls below in unison. The other controls where from other types of block - not the individual colour channels of the threshold block. When Threshold all channels was not topmost in the param group this didn't happen.


Also yes. I reported earlier I don't know if Oscar saw it I was having somewhat of the same issue with the Exposure Module.
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Exposure block problem

Postby munki » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:14 pm

With regard to non-functioning knob/param group widget.

Well, it's not a deal-breaker for the program but it's a deal-breaker for bothering with the param group if you happen to have those faulty blocks as part of an adjustable workflow. Similarly it makes boxing up a workflow problematic too.

Also,

I replicated Bil's threshold>>exposure chain and it doesn't seem to do anything, just as Bil said. I then tried the same thing in Photoshop and found that it too behaves in a way that might not be expected.

The white parts of the threshold-ed image can be darkened by exposure but the black parts can't be lightened. I thought they might turn grey as they would if one applied a lightening curve or perhaps brightness. So, if you will, 50% of exposure doesn't do anything in photoshop when used after exposure. Similarly exposure in photoshop does nothing to a manually painted black area. Things effected by exposure seem to have to be at least a little bit not black. It is greyed-out and not selectable in Lab mode.

I mention this as I usually only use exposure on a RAW image or a 32-bit bitmap and wasn't sure exactly how it behaved. I should also point out that in photoshop threshold turns an image black and white, not monochrome, completely black or white areas and does not allow per-channel adjustment as it does in PR.

In PR, at least in the preview pane, exposure does nothing at all after threshold. I don't know if this is a bug or the nature of exposure following PRs version of threshold.
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Re: Issue reports

Postby Oscar » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:57 am

The threshold will cut all midtones so you have only 2 colors: black and white (in each channel). After that you obviously can't use any effect that changes curves - because you no longer have curves - you don't have midtones in between black and white to push or pull because you removed them by threshold and the black or white pixels will not move with any curves changing module (only in Levels when using output Levels sliders)
This behavior is as expected and it shows that those modules in question actually work perfectly. I will put a note in the module description alerting this.

The binding object not affecting all channels slider - that is a program logic bug (working on a fix) (fixed in 1.0.5).
The All channels in params affecting other slider below - that is related to the same logic bug (working on fix) (fixed in 1.0.5).

Other issues:
Open Output image - will be set by default to FALSE (in 1.0.5)

Preview - munki explained it perfectly. I know some people asserted that they do not care what is the technical reason behind this, they just want accurate preview. That's fine but some modules, like the anisothropic (Shock) filters will never have accurate preview (the questionable modules usually have note on them instructing to zoom to 1:1). Almost all other modules are either spot on or very close. But of course once you use shock filters in the flow then the preview accuracy goes off for the whole flow.

The only way to really fix such issue and have "clean" software is by removing the modules that cannot do accurate preview. And that is not a good way of course.
There is a large preview button that people may be not aware of - this creates larger preview that is also an hair or two more accurate on shock filters.

largeprevbtn.jpg
largeprevbtn.jpg (4.85 KiB) Viewed 2677 times


I could add even something like a "draft render" button that will simply create a draft preview, say 1500 x 1500 or user selectable - but still, the difference on shock filters between such draft preview and full image will be a function of the difference between the new draft preview size and the final image size. The math may look confusing but image with width 3000 pixel is not 2 x bigger than 1500 pixel, it is 4 x bigger and so the difference is substantial for the shock filters.

I think the real reason for all this is that people simply feed very large image to the shock filters and expect to have same result with just "more" detail as with smaller version. It doesn't work that way with shock filters and you either accept it or you don't use it.


Scale:
I see if I set 256x256 in scale module and the input is 256x187 the output image is 256x255 and that is not right of course. (rounding Bug) (fixed in 1.0.5)

See the v. 1.0.5 that address the bugs in this post
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Re: Issue reports

Postby bil abington, pa » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:46 pm

Not sure if it was missed, I posted this 2 months ago so I'll post it again. Flow is attached. The exposure parameter control when in a parameters module changes the 2, 3 or 4 parameter dials below it depending on where the dial is in the Parameters Panel.

Select the parameters module, adjust exposure and you'll see the 1st 2 dials underneath move all the way to the left. If you move the dial down the line it may change 2, 3 or 4. For example move it to below Highlight recovery and it will change 2 severely and 2 just minor.
Attachments
exposure.zip
(1.98 KiB) Downloaded 138 times
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Re: Issue reports

Postby bil abington, pa » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:38 pm

3d.zip
(3.46 KiB) Downloaded 132 times


I may not be explaining myself right so I'll try again on the preview issue. One problem I am having is the previews are not consistent in preview mode, never mind what I am saving. I am attaching the flow as a zip and also an image showing 2 screen shots from Photo Reactor done with Real Draw Pro.

Some Facts:
#1 The starting image for this exercise is 1500 x 1125.
#2 The image below contains 2 screen shots from Photo Reactor. These are not saved images, they are preview screen shots.
#3 Both screen shots are of the same image, same flow (No changes) the only difference is the screen shot on the left is the topmost left corner and the 2nd one was moved down 3 inches.
#4 Both screen shots are Large Preview then set to 1:1.

I used guidelines to set the images up as best I could to show you there is no size change and also let you compare the difference in banding in the same area of the sky in each preview.

test1.jpg
test1.jpg (170.31 KiB) Viewed 2658 times
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Re: Issue reports

Postby bil abington, pa » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:52 pm

I guess it would've been a good idea to post original image.

Image
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Re: Issue reports

Postby munki » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:32 pm

Just downloaded 1.05 ready to install but I think Oscar took care of the exposure and threshold bugs that we'd both mentioned. Apparently all part of the same problem with those modules affecting several sliders at once.

The exposure after threshold he also explains rather better than my photoshop example, so that's just how threshold works. After threshold there's nothing that isn't either black or white in image channels (r,g,b) so exposure can't do anything. We still see colour there because in PR we still have three channels and they aren't all equal or identical.

Bil, I know what you mean with your preview example but I believe it's still down the same math situation that was mentioned with regard to certain blocks like shock smooth. I may be getting out of my depth but I think it's like if I have a patch of sky and colour sample a bunch of adjacent pixels, in Photoshop we usually sample 3 x 3 or 5 x 5 so as not to pick on a single pixel.

Anyway I get some value here like this (from near the top left of your photo)

R: 110
G: 148
B: 203

and again about an inch away

R: 116
G: 160
B: 214

In an area that looks to me to be roughly the same "kind-of" sky blue colour, there's this change in the numbers which is how things are in a photo. But, when you go to work on numbers with a complex function as must be used in something like shock smooth or the others that are useful for the paint type effects, the numbers can get altered radically. So a small difference can become a big difference.

Because the preview pane is only being used on a small chunk of the image, the numbers that are in that area of image can end up quite different when you move just a few pixels.

So, the only way to include all those numbers that're in the first and second chunks of image is to preview them all at once. But then that'd be different to some other big chunk of image over to the right. So we'd have the same problem with those two larger chunks, unless we previewed the whole of the image at once, and that's the full render.

This kind of thing is quite common in previews in general, photoshop's on screen image is actually a mosaic of lots of little pieces and sometimes goes wrong, although it's usually less noticeable because photoshop just doesn't let you see stuff as I also mentioned earlier.

What I do is move the preview around as you have in your screen grabs, and mentally note an average of what I think it's really going to be like.

There is a similar but possibly different nature of problem that I mentioned where strange, often linear artifacts appear in the preview, and also lightening or darkening of the preview and I think this is related to alpha in the flow. I mentioned this earlier and it happens a lot if I drop a semi-transparent image into my flow like my signature. Maybe also if we do other alpha related stuff.

All the best, I hope you don't find me argumentative, I just think it might help the pain of working around issues if we know why they happen.
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PR 1.05 Install Problems Win 8 x64

Postby munki » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:45 pm

Hi All,

Here is a problem you might encounter with installing the new PR if you have the old one already installed.

Installer reports error code 5/error replacing/deleting file. You have a choice of Abort, Retry and Cancel. Retry doesn't work as the same error comes.

So, I hammer PR and it sometimes crashes. In this case there can be a crashed/no longer active PR still running on the computer in the background and not visible on screen.

When running the installer it can't replace the files of the old version because they're still in use, even though you can't see them.

Make sure you closed the old PR before installing, if you have then open up "Task Manager", an easy way to do this is right-click the windows taskbar but in a space, that's to say, not on an icon or button. The click "Task Manager" and look at the "Process" tab. Go down the list of processes and looks for a Photo Reactor one in the list - it has a black icon, don't get confused by the photo reactor installer that you're also running. Right-click that and choose "End Task". Careful here, don't end other things by mistake or you may have to reboot or you may lose some other work you're doing.

Press "Retry" in the error box of the installer.

If you don't like messing with task manager you could instead, close the installer and everything and reboot the PC. That will kill all those processes including the crashed PR one. When the PC reboots, re-run the installer and it should be fine.

Cheers :D
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Re: Issue reports

Postby munki » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:58 pm

I can confirm the exposure and threshold blocks now work as expected in relation to Knob control and also in Param group.

If you're playing around and find things going weird, remember you may need to "reset" or "set to middle" on those blocks to get you back to a place where red/green/blue are of equal value if you want to move them all at once after having been moving them independently.

This is in the new version 1.05

Thanks Oscar, you've acted fast to give this new release and I for one feel good about that and the future of PR :D
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