Problem with AOP Variations

Discussion about Mediachance DAP

Problem with AOP Variations

Postby Chennings » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:19 am

Hello!
First of all: DAP5 is great!
But I have a silly little problem:
I've created an AOP and one variation with smaller paint strokes and more detail cycles. It works fine, one result is bold and the other is more detailed.
But when I run it in batch mode (multiple templates) both results are identical!

I have checked the batch run results again and found out, that the different detail cycles were recognized but NOT the different brush sizes.
If the both variations differ only in brush size, the results are 100% the same.
When I ran the two variations in two single rounds both results are ok, they look like they should.

Is it my fault or is it a bug?

May someone help me please
Thank you!

Christian from Freiburg, Germany
Last edited by Chennings on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problem with AOP Variations

Postby Bron » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:41 pm

Hi,

I believe this may be a bug in Version 5. I ran into a similar issue where the results for two variations (in DAP v503) were the same (incorrect). After many hours of trial and error, I discovered that it was caused by the canvas setting. If canvas was active, it produced the correct output. If canvas was unchecked, I consistently got the error. I can't tell you how crazy this drove me until I figured it out. These things happen. I'm sure most people just leave canvas active all the time and would never see this behavior.

Anyway, hope this helps and maybe Oscar can track it down and fix it in an upcoming release. The new batch modes and the "variations" are incredibly good features that really took DAP to a new level in my opinion. Made my life much easier.

Good luck!
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Re: Problem with AOP Variations

Postby Chennings » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:51 pm

Thank you for this hint, Bron! I am going to check this out.
Kind regards
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Re: Problem with AOP Variations

Postby Oscar » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:59 pm

oops, those are weird bugs... may not be related, but more like 2 different bugs.
I have to check the batch and variations and the canvas - it is probably not loading them, just running the main aop. Variation is like load main aop, then reload and overwrite the changes.

The best help would be if you can sort of describe this error in steps so I can easily repeat it instead of hunting for it - and not finding it.
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Re: Problem with AOP Variations

Postby Bron » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:21 am

Chennings wrote:Thank you for this hint, Bron! I am going to check this out.
Kind regards


You're very welcome!
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Re: Problem with AOP Variations

Postby Bron » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:42 am

Oscar wrote:oops, those are weird bugs... may not be related, but more like 2 different bugs.
I have to check the batch and variations and the canvas - it is probably not loading them, just running the main aop. Variation is like load main aop, then reload and overwrite the changes.

The best help would be if you can sort of describe this error in steps so I can easily repeat it instead of hunting for it - and not finding it.


Oscar,

I will be happy to help in any way that I can. I have some templates that quite consistently show this error. If I have, for example, "real canvas" "paper" checked and run the preset, then I get the expected results. If I uncheck the "real canvas" option on the Painter tab, then I get an incorrect output.

I think it is possible that the two may be related, as I think the time I saw it happen in the Batch Output, I had just run a preset and unchecked "real canvas", then I ran the multiple batch output (with "real canvas" still unchecked on the painter tab) and I think that's when I saw the issue in my batch output. If I get time, I will try to go back and reproduce this behavior and confirm. But definitely seems related to the setting on the "painter" tab ("real canvas" checked or not) from what I have seen. So if that is a global variable, could be affecting both? Not sure.

I also note that if I use one preset and uncheck "real canvas" and run it, and then select another preset and "start" it, the canvas setting remains unchecked and affects the output of the second preset. I use that to my advantage, currently, but not sure if that's what was intended. Also, I notice there is no option within a template itself to say "never use real canvas" (as far as I can tell), Not a real problem for me, though.

Hope this helps.

Bron
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Re: Problem with AOP Variations

Postby Bron » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:50 am

Oscar,

It seems to me like this is occurring during the "Insert Effects" process cycle during the detail run. I noted it is the "Reactor Effect during Detail Cycle" that is not applied in the variation that shows the problem in one template I have (copy of Aqua Real, basically, with variations). Since you must be taking the "use canvas or not" from the environment as you initiate the run of the template, it must be that the checked or unchecked "real canvas" is affecting the runs at that stage. Not sure. Late here and no more time, but hope this helps. If I get time (might be a week or so) I will try to take a standard template, create some variations, and try to nail it down more precisely.

-Bron
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Re: Problem with AOP Variations

Postby Oscar » Tue May 02, 2017 10:43 pm

I kind of think where the problem may be. Lot of stuff is stored as temp. files and then when needed loaded back. It is likely that in batch or subsequent run some temp files will not be created because of diff. settings, but may be still loaded from the previous run as they may have not been deleted... I think that would be the case, now I have to figure out what temp files we are talking about...

Also I think it may be related to the File - Save transparency layers - Keep Transparency layers as some of those temp files were deleted only when this is checked - not sure why, it was like this, but I will shuffle it around. One of those was indeed the temp. file for the Insert Reactor effect during detail cycle and also a canvas texture.
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Re: Problem with AOP Variations

Postby Oscar » Tue May 02, 2017 11:21 pm

I build just the exe (appears as 5.0.4 in about box), Now I remove all temp files when the painting starts (which kind of should have been done, so I don't know why it wasn't - unless there was a good reason which I no longer remember...). This should not break anything, but it may fix this strange problem with the batch or variations (I am bit guessing here, but seems logical). There could still be something not zeroed from previous run... at this point DAP is a bit of "bundle of joy" with all the hundreds additions over 5 version. The main program has 179001 lines of written code as I counted them now.

Also there are slight addition in the image browser as I was in the middle of doing something.

the 64 build exe:
http://www.mediachance.com/files/DaPainter504exe.zip

And in case you still run 32 bit, here is the exe:
http://www.mediachance.com/files/DaPain ... _32bit.zip

You need to unzip it and put it in the installed folder (you may want to backup or rename the 5.0.3 version of DaPainter.exe just in case)
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Re: Problem with AOP Variations

Postby Bron » Sun May 07, 2017 1:38 am

Great, Oscar! I will download v5.0.4 and try it out. Will be sure to let you know if this fixes things or I observe any issues, but hopefully it will be fine.

That's a lot of lines of code and I know from experience how difficult it can be to track these things down. Also how complex things can get after many years of development.

Please allow me to say how much joy I have gotten from your software over the years. I downloaded my first Mediachance software many, many years ago and noticed right away how special it was, showing true heart and vision, and a flair for getting things right. I think I have purchased nearly everything over time, All good stuff. But DAP is in a league of its own. As a lifelong photographer (enthusiast, not pro) and artist (so I like to think), I have enjoyed using it very much. Version 5 really is a breakthrough, in my opinion, and has many things I only dreamt of like variations and batch processes, plus the new layer features. Although 4 was also really good and quite well done (I still have 2.6 and 3.2 installed, but rarely use them anymore). There is a learning curve, but if one persists, some amazing work can be done. So thank you! (And to all those here who have shared their work, thoughts, tips, and ideas!)

I think back to my first experiments with a "simplify" program and where we are now and it's amazing how far things have progressed. There were a lot of innovative ideas and breakthroughs in DAP, so I'm sure you are very proud, as you should be. My hat's off to you!
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