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Can DLP work with 24p files in NTSC projects?

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:52 am
by neilwilkes
Just that, really.
Is it possible to use 24p MPEG-2 footage?

Re: Can DLP work with 24p files in NTSC projects?

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:56 am
by Vapymid
The frame rate must be 23.976 and then you need to apply pulldown (DVDLab would offer to do it for you if you try to import 23.976fps video into the Assets Bin or you can do it with another program - e.g. pulldown.exe beforehand).

Regards

Re: Can DLP work with 24p files in NTSC projects?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:56 am
by neilwilkes
Thanks, Vapymid.

Much appreciated, as always, but this leads me to another question.
23.976 is not a problem - I would do the encoding using CCE-SP3 and add the necessary pull there.
The reason I ask is because my Oppo BDP-83SE is capable of handling pure 24p and can be set to output 24p when the DVD has this encoding.
Does it not pull automatically then? (I have never tried this before)

Re: Can DLP work with 24p files in NTSC projects?

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:52 pm
by Vapymid
As far as I understand, 23.976 pulled down is the only way of formatting 24fps material on DVD.

If your player understands and outputs 24p then it will just ignore the repeat flags (pulldown does not change the video content of the stream - it just sets repeat field flags. So, if you honour the flags you get 29.97, if you ignore them you get 23.976).

Regards

Re: Can DLP work with 24p files in NTSC projects?

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:31 am
by neilwilkes
What sort of pulldown - 2:3 or 3:2?

Re: Can DLP work with 24p files in NTSC projects?

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:37 am
by Vapymid
Normally, it's 2:3 but it does not really matter because both are essentially the same thing - a sequence of normal frames mixed with frames with one field duplicated.

Regards

Re: Can DLP work with 24p files in NTSC projects?

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:48 am
by neilwilkes
So what's the difference? - in laymans terms if possible, otherwise the complex explanation will be fine......
I thought 2:3 too from previous conversations we have had, but the chap at the BBC who did the restoration & scan to 24p says 3:2.
(I ran both versions out of CCE-SP3 just in case)

What will be the better option, given these circumstances:
Film was a print, not a negative.
All run at 24p (and the video is at 23.976 of course - does this mean I need to adjust audio to get correct pitch?

Re: Can DLP work with 24p files in NTSC projects?

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:48 pm
by Vapymid
but the chap at the BBC who did the restoration & scan to 24p says 3:2
Presumably, the original film was 24 fps?

In that case, and assuming DVD format is the target I still see no difference between 2:3 and 3:2. The former will be AABBBCCDDD while the latter AAABBCCCDD.

As mentioned before, on a DVD, pulldown is done by setting repeat-first-field flag every other frame, then the payer decides whether it will actually do that on playback or (in the case of progressive output) will just output the 23.976p

Maybe the engineer was thinking about some more exotic pulldown sequence (like 2:3:3:2)?

Regards

Re: Can DLP work with 24p files in NTSC projects?

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:12 pm
by neilwilkes
Thanks Vapymid.
I'm having trouble on playback though - very jerky & flickery, almost like field order issues but not quite.
Tried on a couple of players - same results with both 3-2 and 2-3 variants.
Is there something I need to set up in DLP?

Re: Can DLP work with 24p files in NTSC projects?

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:40 am
by neilwilkes
I'm also beginning to wonder if there is something I am doing wrong in CCESP3 - I ran the M2V from this through a player, and it was awful.
Same M2V file in my DAW worked fine, but on the DVD it was hopelessly glitched.
I took the same master, and encoded through PPro's built-in encoder (not the AME) to 24p and it seems better in the player that would not play the CCE-SP3 rendered version.
Compiling and will burn a test disc within the hour & post results back.

Wonder why the CCE-SP3 flags are not being properly picked up - smells of Pilot Error on my part to me.....